At one point in the podcast, Gus starts drawing parallels between what happened in the Ukraine with what happened with the United States invading Texas and eventually stealing it from Mexico.
He mentions that white settlers came into Mexico, then the U.S. got worried about them and invaded to “protect” the white settlers.
Burnie interrupts talking about how “your country” as in Mexico, came in first and stole the land from the “Incans.”
I just want to say that…that is wildly incorrect and just the beginning of the problem. I want to clarify that I am not Mexican myself, so if there is something wrong here with what I say, feel free to call me out. My point of view comes from the shared experience of coming from Puerto Rico, a land that was also colonized by the Spanish and later invaded by the United States.
Anyway, Gus corrects him and says that it wasn’t the Mexicans, but the Spanish who did that and that it was the Mexican people who took the land from the Spaniards.
Burnie apparently finds this absurd and starts laughing asking “Who were the Mexicans before Mexico?!” apparently not seeing the difference between the Spanish colonizers and native born mestizos and not realizing that his question is actually super ignorant.
The conversation goes into more uncomfortable territory when Gavin tries to sum it up with saying that the “Spanish shagged the natives” which is so unbelievably insensitive and gross that really, I’m just gonna let that one sit and move on.
Gus also makes a really good point about the myth that is perpetuated a lot about Aztecs and Incas being extinct (albeit with a pretty problematic metaphor).
Gavin then asks why they speak Spanish, which I think would be kind of obvious considering…oh, I don’t know, the early history of the United States.
And Burnie still thinks that it’s illogical that Gus is trying to say that the children of the Spaniards are not Spaniards.
Gus RIGHTLY brings up the fact that the British settlers here who were born here are “American” and not British. This is ignored.
Gavin then asks about the Spanish people who had children in the land of Mexico and what they would be classified as. This kind of stumps Gus, although it honestly shouldn’t have and really, he answered the damn question multiple times in the past couple of minutes. He eventually says that if the Spaniards were born on Mexican land, then they are Mexican.
Gavin says “They’re not real though” which is pretty weird and problematic, but seeing as I don’t really give a shit about the Spaniards, I’ll just move on.
It’s like they don’t understand the concept of what being a Latin@ is…at all. We are of mixed ancestry. Some Latin@s are whiter than white, some are black and some are various shades in between (not to mention that there are also other racial groups).
This is a huge problem with the idea of what being Latin@ is in the U.S. Even with people who live in a place with a high concentration of Mexican people, they still don’t understand the basics, which leads to misconceptions, which leads to stereotypes. And when confronted by an actual Mexican, the logic being used is seen as ridiculous.
And then Gavin asks “who was the first American?”
Uh, what the hell? He clarifies,
"First person born in America who wasn’t a native of America?"
UH, WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?
And that really feeds into the entire “default race is white” because, c’mon, the fact that that is how they’re defining the first American is blatantly ridiculous.
That part of the podcast really set me off because it brings back so many of the issues I’ve had with people who want to try and put me in some sort of box of what they think I should be as a Latin@. It brings back memories of all the extremely similar conversations/arguments I’ve had with people who think that I’m the one that needs to be educated. It was a really disappointing thing to hear.
Though kudos to Gus for standing up to that shit and calling them out. That was awesome.
I’m kind of baffled over this whole ordeal. And I wanted to add and clarify some things. Though I haven’t listened to the podcast and I’m not sure I’ll be able to (not sure if I even want to). ‘Kay, here goes.
First of all, yes, Gus was right. The U.S. did steal Texas (among other territories) from Mexico. Mexico never acknowledged Texas’ “independence”. But the Congress approved of its assimilation. So, there’s that.
And yes, it was the Spaniards who came here and slaughtered the natives, but it wasn’t “the Incans”… wow. That’s so wrong on so many levels. The natives here were many different people who had different territories and dominions, which the Spaniards used to their advantage to bring down the Mexica empire. They were “the Mexicans before Mexico.”
And afterwards, when Mexico was known as “The New Spain”, the Spaniards set up a caste system (which was a horrible, horrible thing), that marked the difference between people with slurs like “mestizo”, who were the children of Spaniards with the natives; or “mulato”, who were the children between a Spaniard and a black person. “criollo” was the name given to children of Spaniard parents born in Mexico.
And yes, they were very real and important, given that the movement culminating in the Mexican Independence was started almost entirely by “criollos”.
I agree entirely, that we, as Latin@s, are very diverse. The fact that the caste system put every single union between people of color under a “category” (and stamped people with a slur on top of that) is, in my opinion, one of the reasons why there’s still a sense of separation between people of Latin America.
Lastly, I should add that, again, Gus was right. Mayans, Aztecs, Olmecs and all the other native groups that lived in Mesoamerica are not extinct. Mayan people live, with their traditions intact, all around southern Mexico and even further south. Our native ancestors are not dead, they’re alive and they’re victim of constant abuse because people like me (who are almost entirely of Spaniard blood, and have lighter skin) are seen as superior.
There’s a saying: “(hay que) mejorar la raza”, “(let’s) improve the race”, which still pushes the idea that we have to “marry above us”, marry white people only, in order to advance our race. That’s fucked up.
I’m glad Gus stands up to them, but I think Burnie and Gavin shut him up, laughing him off as they usually do. I can only imagine the frustration Gus must’ve felt. Because I feel it too, as I type this.
"If white people are so privileged why is there a Black Entertainment Network and no White Entertainment Network?"
"Men don’t have privilege, there are women’s only gyms!"
"Why isn’t there a campus centre for straight/cis people!?"
SAME REASONS WHY IN MARIO KART YOU DON’T GET BLUE SHELLS OR LIGHTNING BOLTS WHEN YOU’RE ALREADY IN FIRST PLACE, ASSBAG.
This is honestly the best explanation I have ever seen.
Hahahahahaaa! Wonderful :)